Economy

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Proof? Link?

+2   2  Reply

Him 2 months ago

In response to “Proof? Link?

Proof of what? You can't prove a hypothetical. The point being Trump got away with it, no remorse at all. Someone died in the fire and he bragged about how well his building was was built.

And people say he gets a **** rap with MSM. Ha! It's crickets out there.

+4   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Crickets? I had no trouble finding this MSM...

Think - this post is not about what seems to have happened at Trump tower. If that's what "Him" wanted - well seriously, it is everyone on every news channel.

This post is about that no one is calling him a murderer, or more to the point, it is about my guess that if it was Hillary instead of trump - you, among many others, would be calling for her to be arrested.

0   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Think - this post is not about what seems to...

Arrested? On what grounds?
For owning a building that's legal under current NYC fire codes? "Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice. (biggrin)

+4   3  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Think - this post is not about what seems to...

And here, Vic, is what NBC tried to do.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us...tector-n864146
Crickets, eh? (biggrin)
Here is a more factual account from the NY Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04...prinklers.html

+2   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Think - this post is not about what seems to...

no, I want you to prove what the GOP, Infowars, Congress, FOX or half the people here would say. link please

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “Proof of what? You can't prove a...

So no proof (ono) more fake news

+1   2  

Him 2 months ago

In response to “So no proof (ono) more fake news

You sir are very confused. If you think the fire is fake news than I feel sorry for you. If you think my 'guess' as to what would have happened if Hillary owned the hotel - well that is just silly, how can a guess be 'fake news'. Are you saying I need to show proof that I really do guess that?

Get a life.

0    

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “You sir are very confused. If you think the...

you seem angry

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “you seem angry

You seem to agree with my post or else you would hit the disagree button.

+1    

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “You seem to agree with my post or else you...

I seem to disagree with your post or else I would hit the agree button. Nah....that's what you want.
"only votes matter"... looking for an ego boost? Is this all you have? (no)

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “Proof of what? You can't prove a...

The building is well built but when it was built 35+ years ago , fitting sprinklers was not a necessity or legally required but Trump changed his thinking later on and fitted them in his other buildings...

+2   2  

JD 2 months ago

In response to “The building is well built but when it was...

Still would like your thoughts on how the right would have reacted if it was Hillary's building?

+2   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Still would like your thoughts on how the...

Some would complain and some would say nothing...

+1   1  

JD 2 months ago

In response to “Proof? Link?

Here's a link Vic would rather you didn't see, Him.
https://www.nytimes.com/1999/03...esidences.html
As usual, Vic isn't telling the whole story. (biggrin)

+7   6  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Here's a link Vic would rather you didn't...

From the article:

Donald J. Trump, one of the developers who initially fought the sprinkler law, said yesterday that he had decided to spend $3 million to install sprinklers in all 350 units of Trump World Tower, a high-rise apartment complex that he is building across from the United Nations.

But Mr. Trump stressed that he did not believe the law would reduce fire fatalities.

''People feel safer with sprinklers,'' he said. ''But the problem with the bill is that it doesn't address the buildings that need sprinklers the most. If you look at the fire deaths in New York, almost all of them are in one- or two-family houses.''

+5   5  

Maze 2 months ago

In response to “Here's a link Vic would rather you didn't...

Confused here. Who is talking about Trump besides you?

This post say that I think you would react differently if Hillary owned the building. It says nothing about Trump. Are you feeling guilty for loving such an evil man?

-2   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Confused here. Who is talking about Trump...

YOU are talking about Trump, Vic. (biggrin)
If the building that had the fire were owned by Joe Schmoe (Schmoe Tower?), you would never have made this post.

+4   3  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “YOU are talking about Trump, Vic...

Please just vote on my post.
It is starting to look like everyone agrees with this outrageous supposition.

0   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

At the time the building was built, sprinklers were not required. However, after 9/11, when it became apparent that no fire equipment could reach those upper floors, the City wanted to require that buildings over a certain height be retrofitted with sprinklers. Trump lobbied against that along with, I'm sure, a number of other real estate moguls.

Having said that, I agree that if it was the Clintons or Obama, the GOP would be screaming bloody murder.

+6   4  Reply

Linnster 2 months ago

In response to “At the time the building was built...

if it was the Clintons or Obama, the GOP would be screaming bloody murder.

Proof? Link?

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “if it was the Clintons or Obama, the GOP...

I don't have to have a link to my thoughts. Hope you aren't terribly put out by that.

+3   2  

Linnster 2 months ago

In response to “I don't have to have a link to my thoughts...

No. You answered my question. You have no proof to your claim as to what the GOP would do, as I suspected. Must be hate driven.

-1    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “No. You answered my question. You have no...

Don't like my response - bite me.

0    

Linnster 2 months ago

In response to “Don't like my response - bite me.

please enroll in anger management

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “At the time the building was built...

All those decades of NYC skyscrapers, and no one figured out until after 9/11 that fire equipment couldn't reach those upper floors?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvWHGFmHKc8

+5   4  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Go figure.

I guess the word from Hollywood never made it back to NYC, Linn. Figures. (biggrin)

+2   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “At the time the building was built...

LOL - Linn, "Him" wants you to prove your 'opinion'. (jolly)(jolly)(ono). Can't you provide a link directly to your thought process? (o_o)

+2   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “LOL - Linn, "Him" wants you to prove...

You weren't there. neither was she.

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “You weren't there. neither was she.

I was in NYC when the Towers went down. Where were you?

+3   1  

Linnster 2 months ago

In response to “I was in NYC when the Towers went down...

What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.

-1    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “What does that have to do with calling...

Stay on topic? How about taking your own advice. You were the one who said I wasn't there when the Towers went down.

Seems to me, you are just looking for an argument and I have no patience for nonsense like that.

0    

Linnster 2 months ago

In response to “Stay on topic? How about taking your own...

Im participating in a discussion. That is what this site is about.

-1    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “I was in NYC when the Towers went down...

What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “I was in NYC when the Towers went down...

What does that have to do with calling Hillary a murderer? Stay on topic, please.

0    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “LOL - Linn, "Him" wants you to prove...

You're weaseling again, Vic.
It is perfectly ok to ask a person on what factual basis they based their opinion.
If they can't provide any, maybe their opinion was based on hot air. (biggrin)

+2   3  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “You're weaseling again, Vic. It is perfectly...

yup , and he is always asking for proof or links. What does the left always say? "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts"
It's not "fact" what the GOP or FOX, Infowars, or anyone here would say. Maybe the rule is one sided.

-1    

Him 2 months ago

In response to “yup , and he is //always// asking for proof...

This is not presented as a 'fact' - it is a guess as to what people would say "if" . Can't be proven unless it actually happens. Don't agree then vote disagree and move on.

+2    

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “You're weaseling again, Vic. It is perfectly...

It's is ok to ask. But it is not possible to 'prove' and opinion. It is my opinion. That I state it is all the proof there is.

+1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “It's is ok to ask. But it is not possible to...

You're still weaseling, Vic.
If it is merely your opinion, then why did you categorically say that if Hillary owned a hotel with no sprinklers and someone died, "Fox News would be demanding her head, Infowars would be non-stop insanity, congress would be holding endless hearings, and half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer." (boldface added)
Not "I think they would", not "maybe would", not even "probably would", but just categorically "would".
(And this from the man who often tells us there are no absolutes that we can know.) (hehe)

+2   2  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “You're //still// weaseling, Vic. If it is...

Well miss smarty pants, if you already know I don't believe in absolutes then I think you can figure out that I also can't predict the future.

I understand that you hold me up as some godlike beacon of wisdom but I assure you that I am just an ordinary person.

0   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Well miss smarty pants, if you already know I...

Yet another dodge, Vic? (biggrin)
If you can't predict the future, then why did you categorically say that if Hillary owned a hotel with no sprinklers and someone died, "Fox News would be demanding her head, Infowars would be non-stop insanity, congress would be holding endless hearings, and half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer." (boldface added)

+1   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Yet //another// dodge, Vic? (biggrin) If you...

Speaking of dodges. If you don't vote on this post I assume you agree with it. So why are you arguing?

-1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Speaking of dodges. If you don't vote on...

Ok, I officially disagreed.
Now, why are you violating your own precept? (biggrin)

+1   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Ok, I officially disagreed. Now, why are you...

The post says "imagine" perhaps you can not imagine those things, but I can.

+2   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “The post says "imagine" perhaps you...

You said "imagine" a scenario where Hillary owned a hotel without sprinklers where someone died. Then you said what WOULD happen as a consequence.

Imagine Hillary flapped her arms. Then she WOULD fly to the moon, according to your dodgy logic. (biggrin)

+2   2  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “You said "imagine" a scenario where...

I can imagine that.

Did not think someone as smart as you would need me to repeat the word imagine in every clause. It is a hypothetical, it requires you to imagine it.

I'll try again, hey Thinkerbell, close your eyes and imagine.

-1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “I can imagine that. Did not think someone...

Sorry, Vic, I'm not buying your latest dodge.
You meant "half the people on this site WOULD [necessarily] be calling her a murderer," etc.
If you had said "Imagine Hillary owned a hotel..." etc., "...and then imagine half the people on this site would be calling her a murderer," etc., it would have spoiled the whole purpose of your post.
In logic, only the antecedent is hypothetical, the consequent necessarily follows from it, if the logic is correct. Anyone with a math degree should know that, Vic (if they are honest, that is). Instead, you are now pretending you made up two hypothetical statements with no logical connection. (biggrin)

0   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Sorry, Vic, I'm not buying your latest...

Whatever Think, get over yourself.

0   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Whatever Think, get over yourself.

Giving up so soon? You usually last longer. (hehe)

+1   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “LOL - Linn, "Him" wants you to prove...

I hope he's not holding his breath.

+2    

Linnster 2 months ago

It's an odd story. 67 year old guy, bought his apartment in 1996. He was an "art collector," not sure if that was a job or a hobby. He went bankrupt in 2015 but somehow kept his place.

When Trump began his run for President, the guy didn't like the additional security at the building, said it was like living in an armed camp. Got a hate on for Trump at some point and thought he was bad for the country. He had become depressed about living there and regularly said "I have to get out of here." He had apparently been trying to sell, but was unable to find a buyer at the price he wanted.

There were no sprinklers and he did not have any smoke detectors. Building management were alerted to the fire by smoke detectors in the HVAC system.

He was found "unconscious and unresponsive" at the scene, and died in hospital. The cause of the fire has yet to be determined.

...

So was this event simply an unfortunate accident, or was it suicide wrapped up in a political stunt? I'm really not sure, but I think there's a solid chance it's the latter.

The assumption so far seems to be he died as a result of the fire, smoke inhalation presumably, but they probably don't have a toxicology report yet. If he had overdosed on a drug and they assumed he was suffering from smoke inhalation, that might have been part of the reason he died in hospital. I'm no doctor, but I don't think the treatments for smoke inhalation and drug overdose are interchangeable.

Causing a fire in Trump tower would not only hit Trump in the pocket book, both by repairs and also by the fact the Trump organization will probably be compelled to install sprinklers, it would also be viewed favorably by those on the wild-eyed end of the left, a way of immortalizing himself in a grand final act of defiance.

Meh, I don't know, just a theory

...

As for Clinton, the right would probably be torn between wanting to attack her and not wanting to create a giant expense for a bunch of building owners.

+8   7  Reply

Maze 2 months ago

In response to “It's an odd story. 67 year old guy, bought...

Good analysis. Thanks.

+3   3  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “It's an odd story. 67 year old guy, bought...

I believe in most large buildings where the apartments are owned by individuals that they would bear the expense of the sprinklers being added. Just like condos in an HOA.

+5   5  

Will_Janitor 2 months ago

I could see that happening. But then she already earned that from Benghazi so it's sort of moot. :)

+8   7  Reply

Will_Janitor 2 months ago

In response to “I could see that happening. But then she...

and about 3 or 4 other events. Vince Foster, James McDougal, Seth Rich and about 34 others according to some.

+4   4  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “and about 3 or 4 other events. Vince Foster...

I'm sure there has been some piling on, but nothing seems to stick to the Clintons.

It looks like it is very dangerous to be her body guard too.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE ALSO DEAD
35 – Major William S. Barkley, Jr.
36 – Captain Scott J . Reynolds
37 – Sgt. Brian Hanley
38 – Sgt. Tim Sabel
39 – Major General William Robertson
40 – Col. William Densberger
41 – Col. Robert Kelly
42 – Spec. Gary Rhodes
43 – Steve Willis
44 – Robert Williams
45 – Conway LeBleu
46 – Todd McKeehan

Wow!!!

+10   9  

Will_Janitor 2 months ago

But Hillary probably IS a murderer. I recall people ending up dead: http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/20...-check-it-out/

+5   6  Reply

JerryHendrickson 2 months ago

In response to “But Hillary probably IS a murderer. I recall...

and thank you! We have a winner here!

+2   2  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “and thank you! We have a winner here!

An amazingly long list of mysterious deaths that cast suspicion on the Clintons. 47. Just like the Bill Cosby rape and sexual assault accusers, the high number of alleged victims seems like there has to be some guilt.

+4   4  

JerryHendrickson 2 months ago

In response to “But Hillary probably IS a murderer. I recall...

I saw that way back, seems a lot of people who were associated with the Clinton's mysteriously died.

+4   4  

SynysterGates 2 months ago

In response to “But Hillary probably IS a murderer. I recall...

I seldom believe in conspiracies, but this one in particular seems far fetched. Bill couldn't even get a **** without the entire world finding out. (smile)

+3   2  

PhilboydStudge 2 months ago

In response to “I seldom believe in conspiracies, but this...

The fact remains that all of those people are dead and not from natural causes. It seems impossible that it could be chance.

+1   1  

JerryHendrickson 2 months ago

Now people are so smart & savy that they KNOW what someone would say, think, or do in the event of something that never happened, never will happen. Impressive (hehe)
No one here can prove what the GOP or FOX would say.

+3   3  Reply

Him 2 months ago

In response to “Now people are so smart & savy that they...

Correct. Nor can they prove what they would not say.

+3   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

Yes I can imagine. The Republicans would be screaming for more investigations. ...put her in jail.... but they let Trump off the hook. But if it was Trump's apartment on fire and the fire department couldn't reach it, then Trump would be suing the NYFD. It sure wouldn't be his fault that he didn't have any sprinklers....geez.

+5   3  Reply

StarzAbove 2 months ago

Whew! Good thing the duct detector system worked, eh?

By the way - Congress is already having endless hearings! And, it's all based on vapor! Be sure to tell Mueller about this - maybe the tenant was Russian!

+5   5  Reply

Budwick 2 months ago

In response to “Whew! Good thing the duct detector system...

Yes, Bud, it did work, but you'd never know if you only read the headline of this CNN story.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/...ire/index.html

+5   5  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “Yes, Bud, it did work, but you'd never know...


Don't watch CNN if you do want to cut straight to the facts. (biggrin)

+3   3  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

I think you are probably right, except maybe for congress holding endless hearings and half the people here calling her a murderer part. It would likely be a lesser percentile of people here who would do that, but I could of course be wrong about that. (a)

+3   3  Reply

Piper2 2 months ago

it's not a hotel

+2   2  Reply

Neanderthal_Momdoer 2 months ago

In response to “it's not a hotel

Imagine if it was. This post is asking if you can imagine. If you can't imagine then, OK.

+1    

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Imagine if it was. This post is asking if...

I live in Reality

as in this example

would you bring a baseball bat to a gunfight?

if not why not

Pennsylvania School District Arms Its Teachers — With 16-Inch Baseball Bats

Reality says no
just Amagine swinging at the bullets from 25 feet away

0    

Neanderthal_Momdoer 2 months ago

IOW you don't have a story. This post is a waste of electrons.

+3   3  Reply

that_guy 2 months ago

You want stories about fires? Go here. Russia has been having one every day.
http://englishrussia.com/

+1   2  Reply

that_guy 2 months ago

In response to “You want stories about fires? Go here. Russia...

OMG, more collusion with the Russians? (swt)

+1   1  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

We get it Vic, you despise President Trump...therefore why you were not able to 'resist' in USING that tragedy at a Trump property for you to once again bash our President, this time by you posting a hypothetical question pondering a WHAT IF scenario had Hillary Clinton owned that building...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Whereas IF Hillary had owned that property (where in her eyes THIS TIME only ONE person died), she would have said "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE AT THIS POINT!"...as she so PASSIONATLEY stated while being questioned about the 4 Americans who died in Benghazi under HER watch as our country's SOS.

+5   5  Reply

Gronk17 2 months ago

Where was Michael Cohen when this fire happened? How about Cohen's hired thugs? Looks like a case of murder to me.

+3   3  Reply

Flrdsgns 2 months ago

In response to “Where was Michael Cohen when this fire...

You might be right. Trump might have wanted that guy out of his building, so decided a fire might do it. lol

My comment makes about as much sense as some of these others on here defending Trump. And trying to pick a fight with the OP for a good post. I'm sure if it was Trump's apartment on fire, there would be hell to pay!

+2   1  

StarzAbove 2 months ago

In response to “Where was Michael Cohen when this fire...

Hey you're onto something...it MUST have been Cohen who hired Trump's "thugs" to start that fire at a Trump property in a colluded attempt to take the focus off of the Stormy Daniels scandal lol....which ONLY our country's MSM, the NUTS on the Left and the Never Trump NUTS on the Right care about!

0    

Gronk17 2 months ago

While buildings are in construction and on completion, they are inspected and passed by many different people ...fire and safety are among the most important and this building must have been passed...these are the people who are to blame, not the owner , even if it was Trump or Clinton ...the people who live there can easily fit their own smoke detectors...

+3   3  Reply

JD 2 months ago

In response to “While buildings are in construction and on...

You are correct, JD.

But of course when he realized that, Vic would add yet another hypothetical, e.g.: Imagine that Hillary paid off the inspectors to overlook the safety violations of the building. (biggrin)

+3   2  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “You are correct, JD. But of course when he...

No new hypothetical needed. OP is exactly what I intended it to be. POTD with 91% agreement and 81 comments. Can't really beat that with this crowd. (pce)

~~ dislocates shoulder patting himself on the back (shock) (ono) ~~

+3   4  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “No new hypothetical needed. OP is exactly...

You should put that on your career resume when you apply for a job at CNN or MSNBC. They'll be very impressed. (biggrin)

+3   3  

Thinkerbell 2 months ago

In response to “No new hypothetical needed. OP is exactly...

Ever heard the axiom - 'Figures lie and liars figure'?

How many socks voted on this Vic?

0   1  

Budwick 2 months ago

In response to “Ever heard the axiom - 'Figures lie and liars...

Good question, let me check...

None,
but it looks like about 15 people voted who were either not members yet or logged out of their accounts to vote. Pretty cool.

+2   2  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Good question, let me check... None, but it...

Yes, of course. Voting 'non-citizens'.
I'm convinced - not.

+1   1  

Budwick 2 months ago

In response to “Yes, of course. Voting 'non-citizens'. I'm...

I thought you bought into the millions of non-registared voters.

+1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “I thought you bought into the //millions// of...

I believe they exist.
I don't agree that they should.

+1   1  

Budwick 2 months ago

In response to “I believe they exist. I don't agree that they...

looks like 26 of them voted here.

That, by the way is how we get new members. Let them vote and they will be hooked, it drives them to become 'citizens' so they can thumbs up all your comments.

+1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “looks like 26 of them voted here. That, by...

Cool! Democrats have the same kind of plan for new American citizens - so THEY can vote for democrats! Works for them too.

0    

Budwick 2 months ago

In response to “Cool! Democrats have the same kind of plan...

Yes it does. Republicans should try it. Their social values are actually more closely aligned with those of traditional societies (or as they are known in the vernacular 'shit-holes')

+1   1  

VicZinc 2 months ago

In response to “Yes it does. Republicans should try it...

If only they were legal citizens!

0    

Budwick 2 months ago

Following Fox News/Infowars reactions during the years, what they chose to be angry about and not, what they chose to hide or not talk about, what they're constantly talking about, how they talk about this and that, and all that, and remembering the same about some members in this site, I'll say that's a pretty good guess.

+2   2  Reply

Sofia 2 months ago

Would have made a difference if Hillary had computers with self destruct buttons. You would assume these exist since “Get Smart and Mission Impossible assumed this was the norm. Though.. nope. Had Interns and higher ups smashing hard drives with hammers. No, really. Actually happened vs hypotheticals. Though entertaining either way. :)

+1   1  Reply

DW2 2 months ago

Anonymous